Ukraine and Russia will decide when to start peace negotiations, while Kyiv’s allies must help it achieve the best possible negotiating position, says German Defence Minister Boris Pistorius.
Berlin will fulfil its obligations to its allies, he insists, as it has in the past.
Pistorius spoke on the LRT TV programme Topic of the Day (Dienos Tema) on Monday night.
Budget rows have cast a shadow on Germany’s defence spending plans. How will it affect Berlin’s commitment to Lithuania?
Not at all. Because we have a strong opinion all over the parliament, and of course inside the government, that we will deploy permanently a full, robust brigade here in Lithuania. And there’s no reason to change those plans.
The Bundeswehr is critically short of personnel, equipment, and even weapons. Can you say for sure today that the 42nd Armoured Brigade will be not only formed but fully equipped by 2027 at the latest?
I don’t see the hypothesis of your question because the Bundeswehr is equipped and is able to fulfil our obligations inside NATO, and it will do so in the future, too.
So there is no problem with that. We ordered everything we need for the next years. For example, the Leopard 2A8 tanks for the brigade here in Lithuania. Everything is on the road. Of course, it’s an ambitious goal, and it takes time and it costs money. But everybody knows that, and it’s the price of deterrence and defence in times like this.
So how many tanks and armoured vehicles will be delivered and when?
That depends on the industry. We ordered what we need, and what we have will be deployed at the same time. I think we will be ready. As you just mentioned, 2027 at the latest. Then we will have a fully capable brigade here in Lithuania.
How many tanks?
I don’t know the exact number. Depends on the number and the size of the battalions.
We will for the first time in the history of the Bundeswehr and Germany deploy a brigade permanently outside the German territory.
The Bundeswehr is considered too bureaucratic. What rules and regulations should be abolished for the brigade to train and fight on Day X?
It’s not a question of our regulations in Germany because we will for the first time in the history of the Bundeswehr and Germany deploy a brigade permanently outside the German territory. Therefore, we will find new regulations for this brigade in cooperation with our Lithuanian friends.
Russia has transformed its economy into a war economy, while Germany’s army has enough ammunition to fight for two days. And yet your generals don’t even want to hear the word “war economy”.
I don’t know the source of your question that we have ammunition only for two days. But anyway, we ordered a huge number of rounds of ammunition of each kind. The industry has to increase the capacities for production of the ammunition, like for vehicles or other stuff, too. This is what is going on now. This is what we have incentivised with our political decisions and our budget. I’m absolutely optimistic that we will fulfil our obligations in the future as well as we did in the past.
How can NATO strike this balance between supporting Ukraine and reinforcing its own combat capabilities?
It is not only a challenge for NATO, it’s a challenge for all NATO allies, the Baltic states, Poland, Germany, France, and others. We all have the same obligations and we have to see how to improve our capacities and our capabilities in terms of being able to deter and defend.
This is what we are doing at the moment and what we will continue dynamically during the next months and years. We donate a lot to Ukraine, which is necessary and which is right, to help them protect and defend their territory and sovereignty. But at the same time, we have to refill our stocks, we have to improve the capacities of industrial production. This is a double, maybe even a triple, challenge we have to solve but there is no alternative.
Nobody of us wants to have a war, but we have to be able to defend ourselves and to be able to fight in a war because it’s a matter of defending our freedom and our security.
In October, you started quite a controversy saying that the nation should be ready for war. That word drew criticism from politicians, even members of your own coalition. Do you still stand by this exact wording?
Of course. How could I not? It is necessary to name clearly what we are talking about. Nobody wants to have a war, but we have to be able to defend ourselves and be able to fight in a war because it’s a matter of defending our freedom and our security. And you have to name it clearly so everybody can understand and can follow the intention. And the criticism I got was mostly about the sound of the word, not the content.
Germany’s prominent military historian Sönke Neitzel warned last month that it could take at least 15 years before Germany gets ready for war, while on the other hand, a German think tank says that the Russian military will be prepared to attack Europe in six to 10 years after intense fighting in Ukraine ends. Is that the reason why Berlin is not providing Kyiv with long-range missiles?
This is really bizarre. [...] No, the point is totally different. What we do is improve our capacities as soon as possible. There’s no doubt that we are the second biggest donor to Ukraine, after the United States of America. In Europe, [we are] by far the biggest donor.
We do everything we can do, but we have to decide what we can afford. And there are no complaints in Ukraine. It’s the opposite, they are very grateful and they really value our support. And I stand for continuing this support as long as it takes and as much as it needs.
You yourself acknowledge that the US’ attention could shift to the Indo-Pacific region and it will reduce its military engagement in Europe. I understand that Germany’s government is ready to assume the role of the defender of Europe. But 71 percent of your voters reject this idea. So, can Europe be sure that Germany will be there when we’ll need you?
You can be sure. There’s no doubt about it. But please be so kind as to admit that a society like ours, like every other European society, needs some time. It’s a kind of shift of mentality and mindset, which takes some time. Of course, we will be there and we are there. We always have been there when we were needed, at every place in the world. And we will take that responsibility in the future as well.
Still, it’s a joint responsibility we have. Everybody is looking at Germany, which is fine because we are the biggest economy in Europe anyway. But still, it’s the responsibility of all allies in NATO. We all have to do what we can to achieve, to improve the capability for defence and deterrence. It’s not only Germany. We have a very big role in it and we will fulfil it.
How do you think the war can end?
That is a decision which has to be made by Ukraine and, of course, Putin. Putin could end this war tomorrow by withdrawing his troops from Ukraine. He is not doing it at the moment. And I think he won’t do it in the next months or years.
So, it’s a decision when we reach a point of the war in which both countries say, “Now we have to negotiate and we want to negotiate”. And our responsibility is to ensure that Ukraine is able to have a very, very good position for negotiations.
But when this point is reached is a decision of Ukraine, not the allies or supporters.
Putin could end this war tomorrow by withdrawing his troops from Ukraine. He is not doing it at the moment. And I think he won’t do it in the next months or years.
I hear the word “negotiation”. Do you think that the war will end in some kind of peace negotiations?
The last war, as far as I remember, which ended with a capitulation was the Second World War. Afterwards, almost every war ended with negotiation. So, we will see about that.
But this is not my decision, not the decision of Germany, NATO, or the European Union. It’s a decision of Ukraine, and of course, of Russia.
What should happen in Russia or to Russia so that it irrevocably recognises the sovereignty of its neighbouring countries within their legitimate borders?
It’s not my part to comment on what’s going on in Russia, in its politics and the society. What we do has to make clear every day from now on that we are willing to defend our freedom and security, and therefore don’t ever dare to attack NATO territory.
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