The Cold War never ended, as Russia continued its intelligence work against the West after the collapse of the Soviet Union. “The Ukrainians are fighting an existential war for the whole of Europe, and the West should take off the gloves,” Robert Spronk, a former Dutch intelligence officer, said in an interview with LRT.lt.
You have worked in the intelligence for three decades. How have the Russian secret services changed during this time? Have they become bolder and more aggressive when acting in the West?
With regard to the war in Ukraine, there are people who say that we should be careful in supporting Ukraine because we have to be wary of escalation and we mustn’t provoke a new Cold War. To me, this is ridiculous.
In my view, the Cold War never ended. During the Yeltsin years, the Russian services were not paralysed but the intensity of their activities abroad was lower. And after Putin came to power, there was a noticeable rise in their activities, which you could compare to the heyday of the Cold War in the 70s and 80s.
They have stepped up their intelligence activities not only in the classical way, trying to recruit people in the West and/or influencing political developments, but also by increasingly using cyber operations. They try to disguise it by using proxies and private companies, which work for the Russian services to undermine the West in different ways. They support the classical intelligence operation, but they have also embedded themselves in the critical infrastructure in Western countries, including nuclear power plants, energy supply facilities, companies, and ports, which is a big security issue.
That’s aggressive and you only do that if you want to prepare yourself for an all-out war. So those are signs of war preparation, and it’s very hostile. Of course, when we detect it, we try to diminish the threat and take all kinds of measures to get rid of the software which is implanted. Luckily enough, over the last couple of years, there’s been more awareness in the West for stepping up our protective security measures against these Russian cyber operations.
So that’s a notable difference from the past. In the past, the SVR (Russian Foreign Intelligence Service) had a monopoly on operations abroad. But we are now seeing that the FSB (Russian Federal Security Service) and GRU (Russia’s military intelligence service) are also very active abroad. In the Netherlands, we discovered some quite aggressive operations from them.
The threat is substantial, and we should be on guard and do everything we can to protect our interests and our critical infrastructure. We’re quite successful in it and we shouldn’t be afraid. They also make mistakes.
One thing the Western European countries did was try to diminish the presence of Russian intelligence officers at embassies. A lot of them were finally expelled, but we could do more and bring the so-called Russian “diplomatic” presence to the bare minimum. It should be part of our effort to isolate them and contain the threat they present.
Do you see the political will in the West to recognise that Russia is already waging a covert war and is an existential threat?
I think so. It took some time, but in the end, a lot of Russians were expelled from the European Union in numbers that were not conceivable before the war. Before, there were tensions between political and diplomatic interests versus economic interests and thinking that we should keep calm and not overreact.
Do you think the Western intelligence services should fight back more proactively?
Yes, I think so. Before the war in Ukraine, we were always more or less at the receiving end, trying to counter Russian intelligence activities in a civil and defensive way. But now we are facing the war in Ukraine, and this represents a threat to the whole of Europe.
In the West, the gloves should come off and we should use our own intelligence capabilities and what we call covert capabilities to counter their operations more actively. There is a visible front and there is an invisible front, and we should do our share on the invisible front as well.
What concrete steps would you recommend?
Countering their propaganda with “counter-propaganda”. What that means is talking to journalists and trying to influence the media in a positive way so that the Russian population gets the news from the West in a non-biased way. During the Cold War, Radio Free Europe and all kinds of news outlets were used to counter the propaganda from the East. We should embark on the same path again.
This is a delicate thing, but the more we undermine the regime with the use of intelligence operations, the better it is.
The Ukrainians are fighting an existential war for the whole of Europe. So, in my eyes, it’s ridiculous to restrain yourself in countering that threat. You cannot fight this war with one hand behind your back. The nature of what the Russians are trying to do to us is vicious, it’s hostile. So, we should answer in the same way.
Opponents might say that this would lead to an escalation spiral, with Moscow escalating the conflict even further.
I’m always surprised by the use of the word “escalation”. Look at what’s happening in Ukraine. How much worse could it get? There are, of course, politicians in the West who use this word when there is a discussion about the delivery of new arms systems to Ukraine. But look at all the suffering in Ukraine, at the bombing of civilian objects, hospitals. These are acts of sheer state terror. What do you mean by escalation?
It’s a form of lacking the right spirit to fight this war. We should also stop having these looney phone calls with Putin because words from the West don’t have any meaning in the Kremlin. They laugh about it there. They interpret it as a sign of weakness.
You’ve called the war in Ukraine existential. Are you worried that war fatigue is growing in the West and that politicians will start reducing their support for Ukraine?
The risk is there of course. The challenge for the political leadership in the West is to keep the fire burning and to keep on explaining to the Western population the significance of the war in Ukraine and why we need to support them. Because if we abandon the Ukrainians and let them fight this war alone, they will lose and ultimately the Russians will win.
The danger then is that at least Western Europe will be susceptible to blackmail. Is that what we want? No. So we should make sure that the Ukrainians can win this war on the battlefield.
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